A total control over each stamp/height map

[KarimZoPr0]

This is something I had suggested many times. The session manager is ok but I like to have more control over my height map. I want to have total control over each stamp/height map and be able to edit at any time. Gaia would be in a much higher level If the stamps could be changed, moved, rotated, later on as well in a non destructive manner.

I wish Gaia had some of the Atlas features cause Atlas gives you control over everything. Maybe take some inspirations from Atlas and turn Gaia into something even better.

Here is a quick video on how Atlas works.

 

[Recon]

I suggested this as well during Gaia 1, and current, but to be fair, Gena is already having something like this, its being made ...  I believe its shown in the Gena forum.    You can use Splines, as well, with meshes, not sure if it will be able to with height maps, or not , someone from PW will need to confirm, but either way, it is something, yes alot of us have been asking for, for a long time and they are delivering with it in Gena.

 

I love  non destructive work flow and one of the only types I will use when working with Open world, having static meshes, and destructive work flows, for me, don't work from my experience.   Gaia added Sessions to address some of these issues as well.  

 

But, I do recommend as I plan to is to use Atlas with Gaia, and play off the pros off one another if you are wanting to use that.

 

.  I use alot of different terrains tools. When it releases, I plan to use it with Gaia, Gena as I can see them working together really well due to the mature features of Gaia/Gena  The intention of Atlas is to do just that.   

Now, to be also fair, not every developer will like or use this work flow, everyone has there own ways. Atlas for me personally its totally my work flow. Which is why i'm excited about Gena, adding this, but also glad to see Atlas was made too.  I for one, have yet to find the perfect terrain tool, so I tend to use more than one.    

 

I make no secret Gena though is my favorite level design tool, world building tool, so having that in the level design aspect, makes total sense, since not actually making the height map, but building the level, which is part of adding rocks, cliffs, adding detail to maps and so on..    

 

My issue with Atlas,  it may have major performance issues, with all of the height maps.    time will tell.

 

PS: I recommend to get Gena, if you like that kind of work flow, and as I said its one of my favorite tools for world building , level design.  If you have a  subscription  to Canopy, then you will have access to it.   You can get Early Access to some other new stuff. 

[KarimZoPr0]

1 hour ago, Recon said:

I suggested this as well during Gaia 1, and current, but to be fair, Gena is already having something like this, its being made ...  I believe its shown in the Gena forum.    You can use Splines, as well, with meshes, not sure if it will be able to with height maps, or not , someone from PW will need to confirm, but either way, it is something, yes alot of us have been asking for, for a long time and they are delivering with it in Gena.

 

I love  non destructive work flow and one of the only types I will use when working with Open world, having static meshes, and destructive work flows, for me, don't work from my experience.   Gaia added Sessions to address some of these issues as well.  

 

But, I do recommend as I plan to is to use Atlas with Gaia, and play off the pros off one another if you are wanting to use that.

 

.  I use alot of different terrains tools. When it releases, I plan to use it with Gaia, Gena as I can see them working together really well due to the mature features of Gaia/Gena  The intention of Atlas is to do just that.   

Now, to be also fair, not every developer will like or use this work flow, everyone has there own ways. Atlas for me personally its totally my work flow. Which is why i'm excited about Gena, adding this, but also glad to see Atlas was made too.  I for one, have yet to find the perfect terrain tool, so I tend to use more than one.    

 

I make no secret Gena though is my favorite level design tool, world building tool, so having that in the level design aspect, makes total sense, since not actually making the height map, but building the level, which is part of adding rocks, cliffs, adding detail to maps and so on..    

 

My issue with Atlas,  it may have major performance issues, with all of the height maps.    time will tell.

 

PS: I recommend to get Gena, if you like that kind of work flow, and as I said its one of my favorite tools for world building , level design.  If you have a  subscription  to Canopy, then you will have access to it.   You can get Early Access to some other new stuff. 

I've played around with Gena Pro. I'll tell you that it's not enough in the field of level design and world building. The splines is great but it's lacking so much control. The only reason why I like the spline is because of it's expandability. But when it comes to the carve system, it's just not enough. The carve system in Atlas looks far more easier and better when it comes to creating rivers,paths and roads. Gena is heavily relying on destructive work flow which makes the process so slow.

The carve system is wasting my time when it shouldn't. The visualization on the carve system is extremely slow when I try to edit it in the scene. From what I've see Atlas Spline doesn't really rely on visualization/gizmos as much as Gena does. Atlas spline seems to carve at runtime.

Look what the splines has done to my terrain after I deleted it. This is one of the reasons why I hate destructive work flow.

From what I've seen I'll have to give Atlas a point for the runtime carve system. But on the other hand Gena has a very powerful spline not just for roads and rivers but also anything between it. Not to mention that you can use the spline for spawning and also clearing colliders but the main core about Genas spline is it's expandability.

I've to give Atlas for Roads and Rivers. But I might change my mind since I haven't really tried it.

The spawner and decorator is good but once applied to the terrain and you want to undo that then it becomes a problem. You might say hey just do Ctrl + Z but what if I restarted my unity project?? If it was a non destructive work flow then the changes wouldn't really be applied directly into the terrain but rather as a layer.

[Recon]

7 hours ago, KarimZoPr0 said:

I've played around with Gena Pro. I'll tell you that it's not enough in the field of level design and world building. The splines is great but it's lacking so much control. The only reason why I like the spline is because of it's expandability. But when it comes to the carve system, it's just not enough. The carve system in Atlas looks far more easier and better when it comes to creating rivers,paths and roads. Gena is heavily relying on destructive work flow which makes the process so slow.

The carve system is wasting my time when it shouldn't. The visualization on the carve system is extremely slow when I try to edit it in the scene. From what I've see Atlas Spline doesn't really rely on visualization/gizmos as much as Gena does. Atlas spline seems to carve at runtime.

Look what the splines has done to my terrain after I deleted it. This is one of the reasons why I hate destructive work flow.

From what I've seen I'll have to give Atlas a point for the runtime carve system. But on the other hand Gena has a very powerful spline not just for roads and rivers but also anything between it. Not to mention that you can use the spline for spawning and also clearing colliders but the main core about Genas spline is it's expandability.

I've to give Atlas for Roads and Rivers. But I might change my mind since I haven't really tried it.

The spawner and decorator is good but once applied to the terrain and you want to undo that then it becomes a problem. You might say hey just do Ctrl + Z but what if I restarted my unity project?? If it was a non destructive work flow then the changes wouldn't really be applied directly into the terrain but rather as a layer.

NO offense, I used Gena  since Gena 1, there are more to it then, splines, I have used many, different in house engines, level design tools and world building tools, Gena when used properly and mastered, its one of the best , most powerful tools on the market.   I use Unreal and have for decades and its even better than what Unreal has and other engines, and outside of engines have...    The spawning, abilities, from world building to level design is where Gena shines....   When creating secondary detail, IE micro detail no other tool has been able to beat Gena in this regard, and you have both manual and procedural and the API, runtime to boot, I have used them all extensively, since its releases years ago..   The Things your listing are related to the splines, and the spline system is newish, compared to the rest of Gena, and yes has a ways to go..  I never had Gena, destroy any of my terrains, and I have used for many clients games, and my own work currently.

 

As far as spawning, create your own extension if you want more with Gena API, that is what I do, and others do..  Plus you have total access to your spawning.... of game objects, if you re-start Unity, you have access to your prefabs and game objects, which you can remove... ( not hard to do.)   Like any game object, prefab, you can select them, mass select and remove, which is part of Unity..  For spawning, I use Presets as well for, so you can massive select, the same set up .. That is saved.. So, not sure why you need undo, for spawning... 

 

Non destructive, is not related to game objects that don't alter the terrain, or textures.. .gena Does not alter any of that, so you don't need non destructive for that..   (Besides, the carving function.) Which is related to roads, rivers, etc .   I personally don't use Gena for  caving at all. 

but I believe when used with Gaia, it saves sessions, when you edit the terrain  Gaia in general has this for when the terrain is edited.   PW, would need to confirm how all that works with carving, as I have not used.  I used Spawning, Deco, splines etc, but I don't do any carving.      When I edit my terrain, I handle this all before hand in my terrain tools. . 

 

Terrains,  in my opinion, due to clients wanting change, DLC and worlds being changed, its nearly a must in the real world.  Need non destructive .  

.  When creating textures, as I do in Substance Designer, I create in a non destructive work flow... but for spawning objects, in Gena, its just NOT needed.. .it does not destroy anything related to the original map,texture or other wise.   The only thing that alters, terrains in Gena, is the carving. Which is not related to any of the spawning of prefabs, I mentioned.   I work professionally for years in a non destructive work flow and also been a Substance Designer developer for years now.   I personally work in non destructive work flow when all possible, but its not always needed or possible.

 

PS, your using it incorrectly.  Report it , to the developers if your having issues.    

 

You are jumping the gun, you or I have no idea what Atlas will have or what will work, videos are always miss leading..  They all look great in videos, as long as I been a game developer I see this, I for one plan to check it out, but I'm not holding my breathe to much, as most tools even when good, disappear or the developers don't listen or they ignore and listen to fan boys only, which in turn , destroy it. So we will see . .As far as Atlas and run time, so does Gena.  and you need feed back, to visualize, that would be annoying as hell if Gena, didn't have that..... That would be guessing where it goes then lol...

 

Anyways, I for one, plan to check it out myself.  But I don't get all hyped anymore , its from years of experience of seeing the same story , play over time and time again.... I for one, yet to see the perfect terrain editor for my likes .  They are always missing something, I want/need.  Which is why I use more than one , when creating all of my maps/environments.      There is an asset, which was used in a game, called Mad Maps, it was an awesome tool, for terrains, I still use it from time to time, but the developer disappeared.  It works really nice with Gaia as well and its actually been proven as it was used in a popular Steam game from the same developer.    

[KarimZoPr0]

7 hours ago, Recon said:

NO offense, I used Gena  since Gena 1, there are more to it then, splines, I have used many, different in house engines, level design tools and world building tools, Gena when used properly and mastered, its one of the best , most powerful tools on the market.   I use Unreal and have for decades and its even better than what Unreal has and other engines, and outside of engines have...    The spawning, abilities, from world building to level design is where Gena shines....   When creating secondary detail, IE micro detail no other tool has been able to beat Gena in this regard, and you have both manual and procedural and the API, runtime to boot, I have used them all extensively, since its releases years ago..   The Things your listing are related to the splines, and the spline system is newish, compared to the rest of Gena, and yes has a ways to go..  I never had Gena, destroy any of my terrains, and I have used for many clients games, and my own work currently.

 

As far as spawning, create your own extension if you want more with Gena API, that is what I do, and others do..  Plus you have total access to your spawning.... of game objects, if you re-start Unity, you have access to your prefabs and game objects, which you can remove... ( not hard to do.)   Like any game object, prefab, you can select them, mass select and remove, which is part of Unity..  For spawning, I use Presets as well for, so you can massive select, the same set up .. That is saved.. So, not sure why you need undo, for spawning... 

 

Non destructive, is not related to game objects that don't alter the terrain, or textures.. .gena Does not alter any of that, so you don't need non destructive for that..   (Besides, the carving function.) Which is related to roads, rivers, etc .   I personally don't use Gena for  caving at all. 

but I believe when used with Gaia, it saves sessions, when you edit the terrain  Gaia in general has this for when the terrain is edited.   PW, would need to confirm how all that works with carving, as I have not used.  I used Spawning, Deco, splines etc, but I don't do any carving.      When I edit my terrain, I handle this all before hand in my terrain tools. . 

 

Terrains,  in my opinion, due to clients wanting change, DLC and worlds being changed, its nearly a must in the real world.  Need non destructive .  

.  When creating textures, as I do in Substance Designer, I create in a non destructive work flow... but for spawning objects, in Gena, its just NOT needed.. .it does not destroy anything related to the original map,texture or other wise.   The only thing that alters, terrains in Gena, is the carving. Which is not related to any of the spawning of prefabs, I mentioned.   I work professionally for years in a non destructive work flow and also been a Substance Designer developer for years now.   I personally work in non destructive work flow when all possible, but its not always needed or possible.

 

PS, your using it incorrectly.  Report it , to the developers if your having issues.    

 

You are jumping the gun, you or I have no idea what Atlas will have or what will work, videos are always miss leading..  They all look great in videos, as long as I been a game developer I see this, I for one plan to check it out, but I'm not holding my breathe to much, as most tools even when good, disappear or the developers don't listen or they ignore and listen to fan boys only, which in turn , destroy it. So we will see . .As far as Atlas and run time, so does Gena.  and you need feed back, to visualize, that would be annoying as hell if Gena, didn't have that..... That would be guessing where it goes then lol...

 

Anyways, I for one, plan to check it out myself.  But I don't get all hyped anymore , its from years of experience of seeing the same story , play over time and time again.... I for one, yet to see the perfect terrain editor for my likes .  They are always missing something, I want/need.  Which is why I use more than one , when creating all of my maps/environments.      There is an asset, which was used in a game, called Mad Maps, it was an awesome tool, for terrains, I still use it from time to time, but the developer disappeared.  It works really nice with Gaia as well and its actually been proven as it was used in a popular Steam game from the same developer.    

I'm not really talking about spawning in general. But for an example with the Gena Terrain Decorator you can choose effect types suc as Flatten, Raise, Lower. All these types are applying the changes directly into the terrain. And YES non destructive is  related to game objects when used with Gena Terrain Decorator.

As for jumping the gun. I'm just pointing out the issues with Genas carve system and terrain decorator. It doesn't mean I hate Gena. As I mentioned, I haven't really tried out Atlas and therefore might change my mind what I think about it.

[Recon]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:01 PM, KarimZoPr0 said:

I've played around with Gena Pro. I'll tell you that it's not enough in the field of level design and world building.

 

On 3/10/2022 at 10:43 AM, KarimZoPr0 said:

I'm not really talking about spawning in general.

world building, level design, are spawning, placing objects, which is a huge part of design.  So to say that about Gena pro, is mind boggling to me.  Some people use Gena or some other tool once and assume they used it...  There is alot to Gena, and the power of understanding how it works, is when you get the most out of it in general. So I recommend to use the whole tool before judging or saying, that its not enough for level design, and world building..  Just saying, it only hurts you as a developer, and you lose out on the power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way ,

I got to use Atlas, and it has a long ways to go. I do like the stamping, non destructive aspects, which Mad Map already had, which was used in a popular game Hurt World.  The devs tossed it on the store, so This part is nice, but Mad Map, texturing, Runtime is miles ahead of Atlas so far. if someone else knocks of the non destructive, aspect, then Atlas would need to REALLY step it up, that is the ONLY part that is really useful.  

 

GAIA in general is way more mature, for texturing, world building, level design as well.  The part that is good for Atlas though is the stamping non destructive. If GAIA added this, Atlas, right now would have no real use.   I like competition though, which is a good thing, it pushes developers.  

 

PS: Surprised, besides Mad Map, that no one else has made non destructive in Unity.... I used Non destructive work flows for nearly 6-7 years now for textures, Terrains, etc all outside of Unity ....  Clearly Texturing in Unity, but not terrains.... This is the way to go  due to being able to edit it, and have the control of your design at any time..

 

I wish I had more non destructive work flow for Unity when I worked with some clients a few years ago, the amount of changes they wanted, was annoying, with non destructive, you can change in seconds/mins.. and not spend hours..  

 

Which is why Substance Designer is so widely used in Film and gaming..... its work flow, non destructive nature, many games even use it to make terrains/height maps too.

 

By the way if your having issues, with Gena pro carving,  Report that to the developers.  in the Gena forum.